Fortunately the man has other redeeming qualities (if you know what I mean) (and I think you do)

Yesterday I took Carol to an appointment in Beaverton and had to leave both kids with Dave for three hours.  Alex had a T-Ball game and for the first time in the 27 months since Genoa was born, Dave left the house with both kids.  ALONE.  He's never done that before for a variety of reasons, most of which initially had to do with her attachment to me and ever-present need for my mammaries.  Lately, though, the reasons have been fewer and further between and yesterday there were none left.  Alex had to play T-Ball, Dave's own Mother needed me and I can only be in one place at one time.

Of course, everything went fine.  Genoa was delightful and Alex had a few good hits.  Taking care of children is not rocket science, but I've always assumed that since Dave's job allows him so few hours of peace each week, I'd rather him not have to spend them doing something that further stresses him out, even if that stress seems silly to me.  The good side effect of this policy is that we get a lot of family time on the weekends.  Dave rarely ever complains about watching the kids AT HOME and often takes the kids out one-on-one, but he tends to have a hard time with BOTH of them in public. 

Take, for example, last night, when we all went out to (horrible!) (terrible!) Chinese food.  Dave expects 100% perfect behavior from our children when we're at a restaurant (even a really BAD restaurant like last night).  He expects Alex to sit up straight, be quiet, sit still and eat without complaining or using his fingers.  No whining.  No getting up and down of his chair.  No pushing plates around.  No making ANY noise.

Basically I feel like he expects the impossible and we spend every dinner out with the kids bickering with each other over how greatly our expectations differ.  Frankly, I KNOW I'm in the right on this one.  I know how other children act at age four and I know that it's absolutely unreasonable to expect the behavior that Dave expects.  Shoot, I figure his expectations are too much for a nine-year old.  I also understand that this is a pet peeve of his.  He used to be a busboy and children at restaurants trigger his memories of scrubbing spaghetti out of carpet for minimum wage.  He can't just relax and enjoy the children while we're out in public.  He has to worry about and manage their every move whereas my attitude could not be more opposite.  I basically only worry about my kids bothering OTHER people, not me.  Kids are annoying!  Even mine!  But the only thing I find more annoying than annoying whiny kids is annoying whiny parents and last night Dave was a PRIME example of that. 

Unfortunately, Dave and I have talked this issue into a deep bloody grave and neither of us plan to budge any time soon, which basically means there will be few family dinners out in our future.  Neither of us enjoys them anyway, so we're not sacrificing that much and at least we'll be saving money by eating at home.  In the meantime, I think I'll be going out of my way to practice manners and play restaurant with both kids.  Maybe we'll even have lunch in the dining room a couple times.  And maybe the next time we eat out as a family, I'll slip a Xanax in Dave's beer so he can chill out.  It might also help to pick a restaurant where the children will actually EAT the food, rather than just complain about how terrible it is. 

I can't imagine we're the only couple out there with such different parenting styles.  Are we?

Comments

[jennP]

Its EXACTLY the same in our household. When we got out, we barely have a good time because hubby is constantly freaking out over silly things. he is always moving my daughters glass far away from her, always nagging her not to do things. Its SO aggravating. If we are gonna eat restaurant food now, i ask him to go pick it up and we eat at home. Or I go alone with my daughter. It's not worth the stress.

[alison]

The more you go, the easier it gets. I think the Xanax is a fabulous idea! And, go for hamburgers and fries so the food issue isn't something extra to deal with.

[Rhi]

Beaverton! You were over in my neck of the woods!!

[Laurie]

Seriously? DID I WRITE THIS POST? I mean, this is us to a "T"! I do expect a modicum of restraint on my four-year-old's part, but I certainly don't expect him to stay still the entire time.

Luckily, Anthony loves to color so I always make sure that he has plenty of crayons and blank paper. Then I make up silly pictures for him to color.

[Amber]

I LOVE your honesty, Amanda! I am annoyed with my man, too. And I agree with you on the restaurant bit, but I seem to have made easier progress in that area. My excuse for a long time was "She's only two!" He thought I wouldn't have an excuse when she had a birthday. Oh no! "She's only three!"

[Tricia]

oh my gosh! This is SO "us"! My boys are 6 & 7 and I think if they are sitting at the table, eating and not fighting, not screaming, not being disruptive to other people, they are FINE! He thinks they need to sit still, eat nd not play. He thinks they should be able to sit and not have to be "entertained" even by themselves! UGH! I told him that he is remembering the way HE was raised and did he REALLY want our kids to have the same memory of him that he has of HIS parents? again, UGH! MEN!!

[Jenny H.]

I have never understood that aspect of my husband's behavior either. They are children. We have also fought to the bitter,bloody end over it and are temporarily undergoing a Cease Fire.

Fight on, Sistah!

[Jenny H.]

I forgot to mention that I am DYING to hear about your new meat loaf recipe. I make the other one ALL the time. I am in love with it. It is THAT GOOD.

[Heather]

Jake and I are with you on the as long as he's not bothering other people. However, I think I am a little more "bothered" than Jake is by Zack's bad behavior.

I don't expect him to act nine but I'm also not okay with him jumping up and down in the booth or shreaking loudly either.

At some point I would assume he will either have to come to terms with what a 4 year old is capable of, which is not perfect resturant behavior, or you will have to do what you have decided, not go out to eat.

[Rex]

You're definitely not alone on this one. Our two girls (5 and 3) do really well while we're out for the most part. My wife and I lean more to your viewpoint. Time will tell how the little man behaves while we're out in the next couple of years.

[David]

You have completely misrepresented my expectations. You also didn't explain what it was that he was doing. Did you notice the 3 year old girl sitting behind you by the way? Probably because she wasn't throwing things, loudly demanding things and then throwing a fit when her parent's didn't comply.

Genoa is two and I do not expect anything from her except that I do not want her throwing things on the floor or literally screaming when you don't comply with her demand that you let her down so that she can walk around the restaurant disturbing people. She is probably too young to take to most restaurants.

Alex is another story. Yes, I expect Alex to comport himself at a restaurant at least as well as he acts at home during dinner. I do view dinner time at our house as an opportunity to teach good manners.

For some odd reason, you gave him a single chopstick (yes, just one) and he was picking up noodles with his hands and winding them around that single stick while whining and complaining about how they wouldn't stay on. His attempts to get the noodles to stay on the stick merely frustrated him and taxed his patience which set the stage for what really bothered me.

He repeatedly demanded that you pick various objects out of the food on his plate. When you did not comply, he got very, very loud and angry that you were not obeying him. This went on for most of the dinner. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Did you notice that even though I was sitting literally right next to him (you were across the table on the other side), that he never once asked me to pick things out of his plate? That's because long ago, I made it very clear to him that part of being a big boy means that you have to segregate mushrooms, onions or anything else you don't like yourself. I modified his expectations with respect to dad's role at the dinner table. Up until recently, and against my wishes, you have performed this task for him, also modifying his expectations.

I do not expect 100% perfection or anything near it. I do expect that my son will not angrily and loudly demand that my wife pick things out of his plate over and over and over.

Lastly, if his behavior at the restaurant was age appropriate and OK, then you would not find it objectionable had that same episode transpired at home. We both know though that you do not think that his behavior was age appropriate or OK. We both know that if he acted like that at the dinner table at home, you would have sent him to the naughty spot with the threat of a spanking had his behavior continued unabated with louder and angrier demands.

[g-mom]

Oops I'm following a husband comment! My husband is the same with the g-kids. But, I have to admit daughter said a long time ago "Mom, when we go out to eat and people see us coming with 4 kids and a friend or 2 they usually want to run, thats why my kids will behave in a restaurant." Which I have to admit they really do. Sometimes though the husband is more stressful than the kids. He expects almost near perfection and that is impossible. Period. The kids don't run around the table, they don't throw food, every once in awhile one will loudly proclaim the other is doing "something" that is awful and embarassing but other than that nobody runs or moves when we come. LOL

[J man]

Ladies, Dave is right, and i as a fellow man fully support his choice to expect the level of behavior he has of his son. I expect the same [adjusted for age] of my own son. I also try to remember not to be a child myself when dealing with the situation as I to can be embarrassed in public and that tends to spark my temper.

Ultimately this calls for team work.

1. Pick a restaurant that allows success.
This would be a balance between a restaurant that you would greatly enjoy and that your child would find compatible and palatable. I personally can't stand McDonald's (gross) or Red Robin (zoo). However I think places like the Old Spaggettii factory (while not my favorite) do strike a balance. And while I may not take my boys along with us on a romantic evening at Roots, We certainly take them to 360 pizza, pranzo cafe, cafe sip & play or Thai Lotus (all examples of great food, service and family friendliness).

2. Allow for a margin of error and then cut your losses.

Kids are kids. they get wild and crazy some times. ...Often when they are tired (diner time). This does not often bode well for an evening out.
Setting expectations in advance helps; both for your spouse and your children. Children especially those 4 and over can understand choices and consequences. it is important as was said above to practice the manners at home and abroad.
And if things get out of hand we simply say "check please". its OK to call it on account of fussy kids. it's better to get them home and in bed (thus meeting there needs) than further frustrate yourself.

Finally, Compromise. I love compromise. it is the meeting of minds in the middle that makes life possible and diner digestible. Select a designated helper for fussy kids that evening. You're both there, but one takes a turn keeping track of flying meat balls and sliding saucers. And be encouraging, reward good behavior, ask them what they want and give them choices. Kids respond to all of it. If they are being messy, comment on how much they must love their food, but ask them to please keep it on the plate and off their brother.

Kids are not perfect... neither are we.

J

ps. while sushi is not kid food, most sushi places serve tempura vegetables and rice which kids completely vacuum up.

[kheatherg]

G-mom= the post after Dave's is my mom.

She's right, the GIRLS behave fairly well in resteraunts. My 5 year old boy embarrasses dead relatives in my family. He seems to act fine during dinner time at home but for some reason when we walk through those resteraunt doors, he grows horns. He'll behave for my parents in resteraunts (As my mom stated above) but he wont for us so i know its a choice thing. We mainly stay with kid family places where someone else's kid is worse. LOL

We dont bicker about that though......

We have a 14 year old daughter who has her first boyfriend and hubby has forbid her to even look at him. Thats our bigger fish to fry right now, therefore thats what we are bickering about. I mean, GAWD...... she has to at least look at him right?

[cindy w]

Well, since we only have 1 child, and she's only 18 months, I don't have much to contribute to this. Generally she's ok in restaurants, and we just take shifts as to who's eating and who's entertaining her. I imagine that'll change as she gets older, but yeah... no idea.

But man, based on Dave's comment, I'm guessing that your fight wasn't over by a mile. I'm kind of glad I wasn't at your house when he got home from work last night.

[midlife mommy]

We bribe our daughter. She needs to eat a fixed amount (at least one chicken finger -- that's all she ever orders), and she needs to behave well. If she does, she gets ice cream for dessert. If she doesn't, then no ice cream. It works really, really well for us. Though this would be pretty hard with more than one child, I suppose -- what do you do when one does well and the other doesn't?

[Nadine]

OH SHIT! I hope that is not the restaurant I told you about.... but it couldn't be. The food there is always so good!

[Gotta Side With Dave and JMan]

Sorry, I'm a mom checking in here who has to side with the dads. I have always had very specific, age-appropriate behavioral expectations for my daughter's behavior--in restaurants, stores, movies, home, where ever--and there are consequences when those expectations aren't met.

She's 11 now and I can pretty much take her anywhere, and she eats real food--not the crap that is offered on the kid's menu.

Her best friend, whose mother has accomodated and made excuses for all kinds of crap behavior over the years? Is still picking unwanted ingredients out of food, reminding the kid to sit down--no, not lay down--in the booth, wiping up food that is spit out when--eek!--one of the unwanted ingredients was overlooked during the picking out process.

You reap what you sow.

[Julie]

Kyle and I have different styles. He tends to be more patient than me, and he lets more slide.

That said, he's a stickler about table manners - not of the Miss Manners variety, but of the "don't nauseate your fellow diners" type. So we actually do fairly well when we all go out together.

[kristine]

Yes, girl's are easier. I must say Dave has a point that kids need to behave a certain way when dinning. For us , we have one daughter , only child 4.5 years. She has been dinning w/ us , in public sense 4 days old. We mostly dine out w/ friends who do not have children or older adult family members.So she has always been expected to behave well. I noticed having small toys in my purse helps, small snacks too. Explaining proper behavior for dinning, prior to the meal too.I know a lot of parent's who kids should be banned from dinning out in public. And I found that those parent's ignore their kids during the meal.Or group the kids @ their own table or both near by, so there kids can destroy & the parent's don't have to look 2 it. So not cool. So I think it's either start young. Or wait till they are 6-8 yrs old & can fully understand that they will pay big for their bad behavior when they get home.
Good luck.

[kristine]

Yes, girl's are easier. I must say Dave has a point that kids need to behave a certain way when dinning. For us , we have one daughter , only child 4.5 years. She has been dinning w/ us , in public sense 4 days old. We mostly dine out w/ friends who do not have children or older adult family members.So she has always been expected to behave well. I noticed having small toys in my purse helps, small snacks too. Explaining proper behavior for dinning, prior to the meal too.I know a lot of parent's who kids should be banned from dinning out in public. And I found that those parent's ignore their kids during the meal.Or group the kids @ their own table or both near by, so there kids can destroy & the parent's don't have to look 2 it. So not cool. So I think it's either start young. Or wait till they are 6-8 yrs old & can fully understand that they will pay big for their bad behavior when they get home.
Good luck.

[JP]

Weird that you just described my morning...and we weren't even in a restaurant!

[Xanax Side Effects]

My name is Wendy Angus and i would like to show you my personal experience with Xanax.

I am 45 years old. Have been on Xanax for 2 years now. In working with a wonderful doctor and therapist, I have learned Meniere's Disease is an anxiety=provoked condition, and is the worst thing I have ever suffered in my life. To manage this, I take a low dose of Wellbutrin everyday and have a 1mg Rx for Xanax, which I am supposed to take 3x-a-day, but to be honest, I usually only take about 3-1mg a week, so only taking it when I honestly feel "too anxious". I also take Meclizine for the Meniere's attacks and those are only as needed as well. I feel the Xanax is better to have around than not, for my personal conditions. It took me a long time to balance out my meds, and taking too much xanax feels as horrible as the withdrawl can be, as I've experienced both. Now, after much time in getting to know what my body needs and how I am feeling (like with anxiety), and removing the 'stigma' of having to take a drug to manage my conditions is now over, taking just a few pills a week seems to work beautifully.

I have experienced some of these side effects -
It makes me very thirsty (dry mouth) but seems to work well in combination with other drugs for my conditions with no ill effects.

I hope this information will be useful to others,
Wendy Angus